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A response to the question of social media relationships
Posted on March 12, 2010 by Gulfsprite in BlogOver on Catherine’s blog: Be Awesome Online there has been a little controversy. A controversy (drama) that I got myself involved in. Ahh after all of these years in the online industry I still occasionally get caught up in these things. It happens to the best of us once in awhile I suppose.
You can read the posts that relate to this here, here and here.
Catherine contacted me asking my thoughts on her new social media game plan and then also she revised the initial post to fit her new rules.
I give kudos to her to the extent that she took the comments and advice to heart and is acting accordingly. I am not sure though, that I agree with naming anyone in such a way. Ever.
I think the content (her ideas, thoughts, etc.) could stand on their own merit and that keeping the names private would better serve her. Very few bloggers can do this type of post and be successful with it. The best of them is here. I can understand, to a degree, wanting to be like Lisa, but it is not for the weak or the inexperienced. To my eye, it is obvious Lisa puts a lot of thought into her content before she ever pushes the button. So my advice to Catherine would be to study what Lisa does for like a year or so, then go forth with that type of post if she dares to be so bold and brave.
As to the actual content here is my response:
I want to start by saying that I have not directly done business with any of the folks named in Catherine’s post. And only one of them is someone I have had previous association with, and now again on her blog, Yay!Yes, three of the four were indirectly a part of the various products I have purchased. So that is why her first post touched a nerve with me. Three out of four means that these people are all in business with the same people I have just done business with.
As I stated originally, I have recently felt extremely disenfranchised by the creators of the very products that I carefully decided to purchase.
This is obviously not what Catherine’s post was about. I think I was projecting my situation and feelings onto her situation because they seemed similar to me in my disenfranchised state of mind.
As to expectations of social media and association with social media entrepreneurs outside of their products directly:
There is a difference between whether I am a customer or just a social follower.
If I am doing business with you then I expect a level of customer service that is not the same as those who are not doing business with you.
If I am not doing business with you and am just following along with interest then I would not expect anything as I would already be reaping a lot of benefit from reading your blog, your tweets, etc.
Your expectations should be equal to or less than your own efforts in any relationship.
There has been a lot of talk lately about everything online being free and that is bullshit. When canvas and paint and internet access and this laptop I am typing on are free then I might rethink my opinion. Until then I sell my art to afford the supplies to make it, to market it and to feed myself.
As for Catherine’s example of being just 1 in 50,000:
Are these 50,000 current and active clients? If so, then this entrepreneur is the frickin holy grail of entrepreneurs and we should not be expecting anything more than contact with their customer service folks. Of which they should have enough CS folks as necessary to provide the appropriate level of service to their growing market. Success should not be an excuse for bad customer service.If you mean, 50,000 followers of which a percentage (let’s say 1% just for fun) are actively doing business with them then that is a different scenario. You are not 1 in 50,000, in this scenario, you are 1 in 500. And being 1 in 500 yes, you should expect a different relationship.
Should you expect a friendship? No, probably not! Although I wouldn’t rule it out depending on the entrepreneur and you and lots of factors that make things like good chemistry happen.
Part of the problem is that these are social entrepreneurs. The folks listed are by the very nature of their field in the relationship business. They are in the business of dispensing advice and much of it relates to relationships (especially business relationships).
Due to the nature of their chosen field they should be excellent at customer service, at relationship building, and dare I say it, graceful even in the face of adversity. Else why would you give them your money to give you advice? If you want really bad advice then there is plenty of that available online for free.
By the very nature of what they sell they should be good and building relationships with their clients and capable of being approachable and personable. And I would expect to see that level of commitment from them, most importantly if they find they need to cancel a one on one appointment.
To me canceling a one on one appointment by proxy via email is like getting dumped by your lover via a friend via Twitter.
As an artist I think there are a lot of good lessons to be taken from this entire discussion. Lessons both about how to conduct yourself in social media situations, how to provide good customer service and value, and about perceived value verses true value.
When I sell my art I am in many ways selling a part of me. And by that very nature I am in the relationship building business too. I very much want my clients to love the pieces they own and I want to have a relationship with them. I also am very much about giving, and giving from the heart so I also care about those who have not purchased a piece of art.
I care about other artists, about folks who love art and about artists who are selling their art online and managing their own brand.
I never want to reach 50,000 followers if it means I might leave them feeling disenfranchised by that very association. That would feel like a fail to me. I guess I can be glad I don’t have a huge following and that I can be personal and one on one with my clients. And if I ever do reach that degree of social interaction I plan to put into place many processes that will free me up to pay attention to the things that matter to me.
Since I am a process and organizational freak I am reasonably certain I will find the necessary work flow to do so. If not, then I might be in the wrong business.
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Great article Christy and some excellent points.
1. From now on, I will be not naming names unless it’s totally appropriate to do so. I included the same names in the re-write of the article because, well, it seemed silly to suddenly get anonymous when everyone already knew who I was talking about.
2. It’s a good point about me really being one in 500. I don’t really want to get into the shoulda/couldas of the particular situation I was talking about, but in general it’s an interesting point. In social media, are people OBLIGED to be nicer/more thoughtful to those who have given them money? Do we have an expectation that they HAVE to be our best friend since we’ve paid them? And considering they’re selling themselves along with their knowledge, and the new paradigm of cash for access, where does that stop?
Yet more interesting thoughts to come out of this situation.
[...] bad language) talking about being naked in social media and Gulfsprite continuing her thoughts on social media relationships and expectations. They're both great and thought-provoking [...]
[...] bad language) talking about being naked in social media and Gulfsprite continuing her thoughts on social media relationships and expectations. They're both great and thought-provoking reads.] Share and [...]
Hi Catherine,
Thank you for your comments.
I agree that the concept of cash for access is a tricky one. I personally would not run my business that way. But then I am not a coach. I have no experience being one and certainly no experience being one in the 24/7 world of the internets.
Does a coach have to be my friend, I would say no. Not at all.
If I pay to attend their membership course, follow their advice and then post my first product to the forum do I expect the coach to respond to that posting. Hell yes I do.
That is where my situation and yours differ I think. My complaint is about a lack of participation by the person who sold me on the belief that we are in this together. That they cared if I was successful when using their product ideas and that if I made mistakes that were keeping me from being successful to let me know about that so that I could eventually find success. Instead I see only a promotion and critique after the success. Cases that are brought out and held up as shining examples and critiques of how they were successful. But it isn’t really your successes that count, it is your failures.
When running a web development team upon project completion the team sits down to say hey, where did we drop the ball, where did we hit roadblocks, what can we do to make sure it doesn’t happen again so we can do a better job next time. We examined our failures to see where our next success could be. I know a lot about web development. I do not know a lot about information products. That is why I paid to join several programs to have that knowledge.
I realize I need to fail fail fail before I succeed. That is cool. But if I don’t know why I failed, and if I need advice on what to try to change, well, that was what I had hoped to get. It is not what the actual membership included.
So shame on me for getting taken. I learned a lesson, a $600.00 lesson. I won’t be forgetting it.
It brings to mind this quote: “Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answers but wish we didn’t”.
No more advice seeking for me. Instead it’s trial and error until I succeed.
I’m not buying anymore information products. I’m not signing on for any additional membership groups. No coaching is in my future.
I’m simply going to listen to my heart and do business in the way I feel is right. And yes, I may fail fail fail but eventually I will find success.
And when I do it will probably be a complete accident and I will be wondering why I didn’t do ‘that’ in the first place.
But I digress… friend to me means something altogether different than client. I have clients who are friends but not all clients are and not all friends are clients.
All clients get my attention before my friends. Sounds a little crazy maybe? But it really isn’t. My friends love me. So they understand that I have financial obligations. When I am working I am working. When I am not working, then my time is my own.
This gets a little tricky if I play where I work of course. It is my responsibility in that situation to set boundaries, and to broadcast that information.
It is the same issue as the one where everything online should be free. No it should not. It should be clear what is free and what comes with a price.
And to those who are paying that price, then yes, I will give them more of my attention than those who are just in it for the free stuff.
And just to be clear, free is not always free. And giving is not always to folks who want free.
I have donated plenty of my art for charity (Breast Cancer being my first and foremost charity involvement) and those folks do get my attention. Because I set aside time just for that. Giving back is not the same as paid clients or free stuff I offer just for fun.
I think a great read is Lisa’s post about Debunking the everyone is equal myth here: http://outspokenmedia.com/online-marketing/everyone-is-not-equal/
I know, this is the second time I have referenced one of Lisa’s posts. I like her brazen style even though I don’t want to portray my style the same way. I am no a Lisa, I just think she is funny and balsy and writes a helluva good blog post.
For me as an artist the answer is unequivocally yes. When someone buys my art it can (doesn’t have to be) that they want to collect art of a particular style or of a particular artist.
And more importantly my collectors want and need to know that I will continue to create art and quality pieces that will make their investment grow. Since the art will only continue if I continue to paint it, well, then they and I have now made an investment in my continued success.
Does that carry over to someone such as a mentor or coach or even partnership business? I think it does.
I am very relieved to read your last comment here Christy, simply because I am a collector of your work (of which I have several BTW), a client and best of all a VERY good friend that as you said Loves you…so it seems to me that I am in the drivers seat here…sorry to hear you spent your hard earned money on a bunch of “cool kid” bull shit.But this made me formulate some pressing questions…Does someone have the right to “dupe” someone else by selling information that they have probably obtained in a questionable way in the first place? Where is the BBB when you need them? Do I have 3 days to ask for my money back? How long do I have to wait for results from buying their product? This all makes me think of a song by Dyer Straits “money for nothing and the girls are free on MTV”…I have a small anology of all of this…what if you paid me for swimming lessons and I gave you some kiddy water wings and said ok kid you are on your own, no matter how many times I saw that you needed help, I just ignored you…
so when you drown, will I be responsible? No I will just tell everyone I was your friend but we never really had a profitable relationship and I ment to send an email to that effect but my assistant was sick that day and didn’t get the message to send the email. Do you want your money back? Hell yes you do. What about a guarentee? Ha! Just kidding about the guarentee…I don’t know how a person could guarentee “social media”…what the hell is social media anyway? I do know the difference between honesty and dishonesty…and that does carry over to everyone even mentors and coaches and partnerships. Bottom line: there are people out there that just love to hear themselves talk (even if it is in their own head)so “Buyer Beware” right?
Linda,
Thank you for your comments. Yes, the best clients are those who you have an affinity with and who you become friends with. I love your analogy. That is indeed how I feel. I could go back and ask for my money back, and maybe some of it would be returned to me. But as I have counseled my daughter, if you learn a valuable lesson sometimes it is money well spent.
I indeed learned an important lesson. No one can make my business successful but me and cliques are for high school. Business owners do not associate with nor participate in cliques. The current acronym for social media is SoMe. When I think about it I have to laugh. SoMe = so me.
I would caution anyone to think twice, perhaps even three times if needed before purchasing any program or coaching from a SoMe entreprenuer.
Compared to what is happening to others that I have met through this process I learned my lesson fairly quickly. I really feel bad for the ones who have spent thousands and are still caught up in it. It is like a pyramid scheme. Or like the lyrics to the Eagles song:
Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
“relax,” said the night man,
We are programmed to receive.
You can checkout any time you like,
But you can never leave!
I got lucky and I managed to get out of the hotel California that is the SoMe game. Others have not!